Start Jackson Arnold?

[Up North Sooner]

Bottom post of the previous page:

I used to live next door to a guy who was an official in the old Big 8, and for the first couple of seasons in the Big 12. He used to tell me stories and laugh about calling games against teams he hated, and making sure they got a penalty to wipe out a good play, etc.....

Corrupt officials has been going on forever, but I honestly have never seen a game called as poorly as the one yesterday was. The non call of Stoops being tackled in the endzone should, and hopefully will, live on in infamy. Again, there were other terrible calls, and non calls, but that was the most blatant.

My wife and I went out to our favorite watering hole last night to watch other games, namely the Michigan game, and the LSU/Bama game, and I had people coming up to me all night telling me how badly we got screwed over by the officials and how they couldn't believe what they were seeing. Since moving here 4 years ago I have become known as "OU Guy," apologies to the real OU Guy here, around town because I'm always wearing Sooner gear so I get into a lot of conversations with people about the games, and have created some OU fans up here. It is always interesting to hear their perspective on things, especially after something like what happened yesterday. In fact as soon as we walked into the bar last night an older guy, 80 something, that I talk to a lot came up to me and asked "What is wrong with your offensive coordinator? Is he some sort of imbecile?"

I have to say the Michigan fans are, mostly, great people and knowledgeable football fans. Michigan State fans remind me of the Oklahoma Aggie fans and are to be avoided if possible.

[SoonerinLA]

With 25% of the season left we should still try to win every game. DG is by far our best hope for that. But we should let Arnold play a series or two each game.

[OU Guy]

Wow, some really great comments all around! Everyone has brought up great points both pro and con about the qb position and what to do.

To me there is zero chance of it happening. But its a good exercise in seeing all the issues and potential solutions. There is no right answer but as dedicated fans we each have our opinions.

I think Lebby is partly at fault. He knows DG is not a great deep ball thrower and even last week we had more evidence with the throw to Brennen. He is likely looking for a flag which earlier in season we got on long throws. DG can throw it but its usually a floater and that is risky. Lebby needs to limit those and go to his strengths which is short and medium range passes. Or insert JA a series where you likely go deep on a pass.

Somehow we do need to get JA on the field to throw. He is a top 5*+ qb and so far has been a loyal team member. But we don’t knkw what he’s thinking about Lebby since Lebby recruited him. On one hamd if Lebby is canned what does JA do? He might want to transfer. We fans don’t see the bonds these players make with coaches but they had a recruiting relationship for a few years prior to him arriving early to OU. These players believe in their recruiter coach. Constant communication there is a big trust that develops.

Once here does that trust slowly transfer to the HC or the program and away from their recruiter coach? Likely a different answer for each player. So when that qb sees those deep passes not work and knows he can throw them yet is never goven the chance (bit sees other positions rotated all the time) does he break that bond with OC? Does he remain loyal to OU if Lebby is gone end of year?

We have to be careful how we handle both Lebby and Arnold. I do not have the answer. I know that we cannot lose Jackson Arnold headed to SEC. As has been noted the qb position is most important one on the team. DG has the max experience and is a great person. But some of his decisions have left me wanting. On the flip side he absolutely played great vs Tx and on our last drive in that game he was the difference maker. That last TD pass he stayed in the pocket under exteme pressure and saw/threw the winning TD pass. So I’m torn on what I think we should do (and I promise the team is not reading my rantings either).

Its a dilemna to me the fan but its not to Lebby as he is not going to replace DG. And please understand I love what DG has done and am only looking at purely how we can win more games from a fan perspective.

Appreciate all the honest discussion

[Fly]

Tell you guys this. You need to watch Gabe Ikard & Teddy Lehman recap on the Bedlam lost better than Anyone. I get so frustrated
at fans blaming coaches players, this and that. Those two have forgot more about the game of football then any of us will ever know.
They take notes on every play, as to what worked & what did not. What player or players made a play work or not. You need to sit
down and at least watch 30 minutes of them breaking down defense first then offense. The blame was all over. Much of it on officials
Mistakes, turn overs as QB decision making. They talked about some great plays Lebby had drawn up that we did not execute correctly. The blame was all over. It was not on one thing. Go watch it. It may enlighten you on your thinking as to why things went as they did.


Fly

[OU Guy]

[Three5s!]

Regarding the original post here are my thoughts for what they are worth. I would continue to start DG and all the other starters who are upperclassmen. But since we have no hope hope of the CFP nor conference championship, I’d treat every game much like a scrimmage. Every upperclassman starter that has no hope (or minimal hope) of making the NFL gets subbed out routinely for a younger player in an effort to get them real time game experience and an “audition” for playing time next year. DG, Raym, Coe, Kelley, Stogner, Ford, Major, and others I’m forgetting are prime candidates. I know most of the defensive players already sub routinely but I’d increase playing time for the younger players. But QB is one position where that rarely happens, and why? Because it’s the most important position. So why not get your most important player more and more real time experience this year i preparation for next year. DG is not an NFL- caliber player. Nice young man, really good G5 QB, but slightly above average P5 QB. I’m ready to begin the JA era now.

What do we have to lose? If we lose all the rest of the games this year but get more experience for next year, so what? We go to a lesser bowl that a good portion of the NFL-bound players will opt out of anyway? Whoopee, who cares? Much like the FSU game last year, I could care less if we win or lose a meaningless bowl game. But I will care who looks good, who seems to be progressing, who doesn’t, etc. Sounds like a scrimmage or tryout to me. Why not treat the rest of this season the same way?

Like I said those are my thoughts and not worth a plug nickel. I’m not a coach and understand why it won’t happen but so be it.

With all due respect, I totally disagree with this. You don't scrap a season over 2 losses. You play your heart out to finish the seanson in the best way possible. Evidently, OSU figured that out. The lost to South Alabama and then rallied.

We could still end up in the top 5 or so if we win out and that would be a great year, any year, but especially this year. We should not sell out to the future players, if the current players are doing what was asked. That will destroy, not build culture. Of course, working the young guys in as they learn the system is a healthy natural progression and balances seniority and loyalty with young guys who were assured a shot to play when they are ready and earn playing time.

What we have to lose with your scrimmage approach is all credibility as a team that plays its hardest to win no matter what. It will play out great in recruiting with your approach- "we lost 2 close games so we decided to play for next year. Hope that doesn't happen you senior year."

A valuable lesson in sports and life and sports is how to deal with and make the best response possible when dealing with adversity. That is not giving up for this year after 2 losses and playing for next year.

I also totally disagree with the statements that we should treat games as scrimmages and who cares if we win our bowl game.

I don't mean to be rude, but did you ever play sports?

[SoonerGirl1201]

I agree that there is still a lot to play for this season. Not just sticking it out and finishing a very respectable 10-2, but Gabe was talking about the 2013 season and how the Alabama game (after a relatively disappointing non/Big 12 champ season) was one of if not the best memory of his entire playing career. That is still possible for our team - ending the season on a super high note if they can regroup and put everything together for the last 3 games and get into a good bowl and win it. It could very well be against an SEC team like Alabama/LSU/Ole Miss/Tenn/Missouri and be a little sneak peak at next year. That is the positive send off to this season that we need going into next year.

There is still a ton to play for and I really hope they see that. At the same time, I do think it makes sense to start playing some of the younger players more and getting them ready for next year. JA is an example. If they have determined that there is no reason to red shirt him, they should start getting him some playing time (a little like KSU is doing).

Hopefully with literally no pressure - the team will regroup and come out swinging the last 3 games!

[Fly]

When JA came aboard he & his father said they wanted him to red shirt this year. That maybe why we have not seen him. Unless they
Have changed there minds. My thought which means NOTNING, is most great QB elect to enter the NFL after there Jr year any way.
That kinda makes red shirt counter productive unless they feel there not ready to start in there freshman year. His play has showed
he could step in at anytime from his play performance. But that is his call, along with his father.

Fly

[Shelstin]

No, there is no reason to start Jackson Arnold. We need to start Booty, since he will be the QB left on the roster if we fire Lebby.

I also do not believe that it is up to a player or parent to decide on a red shirt. That is a program decision, and coaches will do what is in the best interest of the team. If BV and JL thought that it was in the best interest of the TEAM to play JA, we would have seen that.

I completely disagree that we should treat the remaining games as scrimmages. That would absolutely kill the culture of winning that we are building. We would have every player with fire in his gut leave via the portal. Guaranteed.

[Zgeo]

Seem like y’all think it will be easy to go 3-0 the rest of the way, it will be easy to go 0-3

Have to start DG and Tawee to go 3-0

[SoonerTony]

Seem like y’all think it will be easy to go 3-0 the rest of the way, it will be easy to go 0-3

Have to start DG and Tawee to go 3-0

If - and right now it’s a really big if - the Sooners win out, all it takes is for Kansas and Texas to each lose one more game and we could potentially see a bedlam rematch in Arlington.
It’s a long shot but stranger things have happened. That’s why we roll with DG. There is still potentially a lot to play for…

[SoonerGirl1201]

Seem like y’all think it will be easy to go 3-0 the rest of the way, it will be easy to go 0-3

Have to start DG and Tawee to go 3-0

If - and right now it’s a really big if - the Sooners win out, all it takes is for Kansas and Texas to each lose one more game and we could potentially see a bedlam rematch in Arlington.
It’s a long shot but stranger things have happened. That’s why we roll with DG. There is still potentially a lot to play for…

It wouldn't be the strangest thing in the world to see KState beat Kansas and Iowa State to beat texas. Can you imagine the fear in the gloating fosu fans if they had to face us in the Big12 CCG. That would be the real story book ending. Let them ride high on the "last bedlam win" juice until we beat them in the final Big12 CCG as the real "last game of bedlam". That actually would be a fitting end to the series history.

Who knows - probably won't happen but what an ending if it did.

[JoeSooner]

Texas barely beat Houston and should have lost to K-State. Now you can certainly say the same thing about us against UCF, but nothing in this scenario is impossible.

[Fly]

I agree but let’s be honest. Who is the best passer between our QB,s ? Why has DG not tried to run the ball when every one is covered.
Thats his to choice. I,m not trying to put him down, believe me on that. But I do want our best chance to win out. I myself would like
To see JA given the chance if at all possible, if DG is struggling. We all know he is not the long ball thrower that JA is.JA has shown
he runs very well also. That is just my thinking, but it may not be possible anyway if JA wants to keep his red shirt.

Fly

[OU Guy]

I do want to note this has been a great discussion excercise and we all know they will never read this so its just fun discussion.

But I also hope on Sat if DG is struggling at any time that fans do not cheer for JA. I don’t want to see that and hope the fans support DG no matter how the game is going.

[OU Guy]

Not meant to put down DG he has his strengths snd bailed us out when our qbs all left. Will always be greatful.

But check out this video of Kyler to see the difference in long ball and I think this is what Jackson will bring back. It really helps your overall game imo, because defenses can’t “cheat up to box” as much having to respect deep ball more. Also helps run game as you have more room once thru line.